EXCLUSIVE: giant class action against German inventors of PCR-test. No pandemic without PCR-test.


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The following text is a transcript of the interterview part of a video. The video has the title: Exclusive Interview: Gigantic lawsuit against Prof. Christian Drosten & environment. The interview was conducted on 17.9.2020 and published for the first time in the original on 18.9.2020 for all then e-mail subscribers of the Club of Clear Words, the independent and non-partisan pro bono public platform of the publicist Markus Langemann. On 19.9.2020, the interview was made available to the international public on YouTube. This transcript was prepared by a lawyer, whom the Club of Clear Words was able to honor from the friendly donations. We work completely independent of political influence or external financing. We do not pursue any ideologies or world views. We feel connected to the Christian world view, we strive to provide factual and value-neutral information. We cannot exclude errors, but we do our best to avoid them. We invite you to think for yourself #think for yourself. “Not a single PCR test can detect infection. It is impossible.”  2 Dr. Reiner Fuellmich is a licensed lawyer in Germany and the USA. He studied law in Göttingen and Los Angeles. Among other activities he has published on banking law, medical law and international law and has been a professor and lecturer at universities in Germany and Estonia. You can read about it on his website. MarkusLangemann Dr. Fuellmich, you are the spiritus rector of the corona damages class action. Those who do not deal with the legal profession on a daily basis are familiar with class action lawsuits, mostly only from the USA. Often in this context to hear and read about the almost monstrous sums of damage that are at stake. Please let us clarify this first: What is a class action lawsuit? What distinguishes it from an individual lawsuit and why is it a collective lawsuit? Dr. Reiner Fuellmich A class action lawsuit is called Class Action in the original, so “Class” is the group and Action is lawsuit. This only exists in the Anglo-American countries, in the USA and in Canada. There were also times in England, where it was created, by the way, only there it no longer exists. So very early means a few hundred years ago. The purpose of a class action lawsuit is to allow a large group of people who have been similarly harmed by one and the same event to seek damages in a single action. This would mean a huge group for the Corona case. Not only in Germany, but all over the world has been damaged by one and the same event, namely the lock down. We have primarily addressed entrepreneurs, because claims for damages are the easiest to calculate and above all to quantify. Anyone else can also claim damages. Claims for damages for pain and suffering also come into play here, as I learned today in the Corona Committee. But this class action lawsuit exists only in the USA and Canada. This should also be introduced in Germany, in a similar way, the European Commission has already demanded this from Germany on several occasions. This has all been blocked by the industry lobby. The only thing we have in Germany, and where some people believe that its a class action lawsuit, is the so-called Muster Feststellungsklage. It’s not good for anything, that’s for sure. Now that it has played a role in the This scam number and then failed miserably. The class action serves primarily to simplify matters. You had previously mentioned the large sums of money: This is often used as a criterion or point of criticism by industry-related associations, which naturally have no interest at all in the introduction of class action lawsuits in Germany. There is talk of lawsuit industry. However, they confuse things a bit. The class action is to be distinguished from punitive damages. The latter also results in high fines. Punitive damages may be awarded by an American or Canadian court if the damage is caused by intent or willful misconduct; or we would say in Germany by intentional immoral damage. Yesterday I talked about it with Prof. Schwab, who agrees. Here we are dealing with an intentional immoral damage. But we are not interested in punitive damages. If a Canadian or American court says that this class action is allowed and the damage is so bad that it has come to light that punitive damages are now being considered, then it’s nice. But that’s not what we are about. Our aim is to  3 process the situation, the facts as quickly and carefully as possible, and to impose the most rapid and severe sanctions possible, whether they are imposed by the Canadian, US or Canadian authorities. Markus Langemann Two questions that arise from your answer: First: Who is Prof. Schwab, what role does he play. Clarify it for us, since we are not legally are pre-trained. Second question: Did I understand correctly that a German citizen or a German businessman who can prove that he has been harmed could file a lawsuit in the course of the corona damage class action via the USA? Dr. Reiner Fuellmich That is correct. One depends on the other. Who is Professor Schwab? Prof Schwab is a renowned law scholar who holds a chair at the University of Bielefeld and also teaches there. He belongs to those who maintain contact with reality, i.e. the judicial reality. He runs a course for his students called “Watch the Court” which teaches students that in practice what is taught to people in judicial training is not really true. There we are already at the second point: In legal practice, we as lawyers, but also other lawyers – and Prof Schwab is one of these others – have found that in disputes between structurally inferior parties, i.e. individual consumers, individual investors, smaller entrepreneurs – against large fraudulent groups, such as Deutsche Bank, VW or Wire Card or Kühne und Nagel in these disputes with structural imbalance the courts in Germany very very often fail to deal with the matter in court and the courts tend to simply accept even the most brazen actions of these entrepreneurs and not even take evidence of them when it is disputed. But not always, there are some exceptions, which unfortunately confirm this rule. Because of this structural imbalance, a group called ADUR Action Democracy and Rule of Law has formed. These are lawyers, professors, but not only law professors, but also, for example, journalism professors. Then there are people from the judiciary, prosecutors, judges. They got together and thought about how to improve this situation. One of the possibilities we have been thinking about and are still thinking about is the introduction of a real class action lawsuit. Another is the introduction of a genuine sanction-proven law of evidence, namely the so-called discovery, as it also exists in the Anglo-American legal field. What good is the best court in the world if I do not have a reasonable right of evidence. This does not mean that we do not have a reasonable right of proof. We have that. But only in theory. In practice, this does not work at all. In practice, it is as I have just said: In the structural imbalance, the courts tend to simply accept all the nonsense told by the cheating corporations, i.e. the structurally overweight. We can’t believe that these corporations are capable of lying. The last number was Wire Card. The first person to be investigated was the one who took over the work of the public prosecutor’s office, namely the journalists from financial times. By then everything was already too late. In the meantime, this hesitant behavior on the part of the judiciary is likely to have caused enormous damage to those who have invested in Wire Card in any way. For example, the people who are invested in the Deutsche Bank Gesellschaft, DWS. The third question was: How can a German participate in such a lawsuit in the USA?  4 We have here the peculiarity that a defective product of a German was put into circulation and distributed in the USA, Canada and worldwide. This is related to the fact that the PCR test. This PCR test is the only basis for us here in Germany and worldwide, for the assumption of a pandemic. The PCR tests cannot and must not detect infections, are not approved for diagnostic purposes and they cannot. They can only determine that a certain fragment of a molecule has been found in the body. That can be however anything, for example also the remainder, the debris of the defense fight of the body-own immune system against a cold be. Or something even more harmless: These things can also have a positive effect on papayas. As has already been reported in the media. This means that the actual basis for the assumption of a pandemic does not exist at all. The PCR tests have been marketed with the assurance that they can detect infection. Contrary to what is written on most package inserts. On the basis of these infections, the whole numbers from the RKI or the numbers in the USA are always circulated, all measures have been taken. So the government, the Bundestag as a whole, the opposition, in their decision to establish the epidemic situation of national importance, had only one factual basis, only one single opinion, on which they based themselves. This was apparently also the case in the state governments, for example also in Bavaria. Apparently, there are not even files that must be held up to the so-called rule of law so that one can check the government’s actions. If it was like that, that here with a completely wrong assurance a product was brought into the market, which does not function with the purpose at all, then that is like with VW. The cars are running, but they did not meet the emission regulations, especially the Californian. There they were deceived into believing that they did, and because they were sold in the USA, they are automatically subject to American jurisdiction. Exactly the same for Canada and exactly the same applies here for the PCR tests. The Germans were the first, that was the Drosten Test, which was advertised by Mr. Wieler from the RKI and which was recommended worldwide as the first test, also with the help of Mr. Tedros (there are very close relations), and was therefore marketed all over the world. Markus Langemann We hear and perceive: You are extremely deep in this subject. I would like to repeat a very important sentence and you can confirm it: PCR tests cannot and must not detect infections. Is this true? Dr. Reiner Fuellmich It is exactly the same. On most package inserts this is also stated as “Not approved for diagnostic purposes” or in the USA and Canada “no licence for diagnostic purposes”. So they are not allowed to do it at all. But someone went out, Mr. Drosten, Mr. Wieler and also Mr. Tedros and claimed the opposite and that was the reason for all the measures, especially the lock down. Everything else too, masks and so on, were seized. We know that this is so because we have contributed to the clarification of the situation. There I am one of 4 members. We 4 lawyers got together and wanted to know what was going on. This is what lawyers usually do. The most important task of lawyers is not the application of law, but the establishment of facts. Many lawyers believe this wrong. In order to establish these true facts, we have gathered in this committee and interviewed experts on all major issues concerning the Corona crisis on the Corona Scandal. First: How dangerous is the virus? Second: How reliable is the PCR test? Third: What kind of collateral damage has occurred due to the corona measures? Both on the health side, like suicides, domestic violence, operations were postponed, there were no more preventive measures, no more rehabilitation measures, but naturally also on the economic side. The whole country has been paralyzed. In contrast to the corporations, which receive subsidies at least for the time  5 being and are kept afloat with generous billion-euro loans, a large part of the medium-sized entrepreneurs have received far too little. 65% of all jobs are in small and medium-sized enterprises and the self-employed. They only survived because some of the reserves for old age were released. Markus Langemann Mr. Fuellmich: I have to come back to the sentence because it sounds unbelievable and manifests the unbelievable: The PCR test cannot and must not detect infections. Where do the numbers come from that we read and hear every day on television, radio and various websites? Dr. Reiner Fuellmich These are the results of the PCR test. These are tests that were performed with whatever PCR tests were used. There are now 300 to 500 tests, but they all work on the same principle. The PCR test itself is a super thing, invented by an American researcher, Kary Mullis. I think he even received a Nobel Prize for it. This is a highly sensitive test that detects everything as accurately as possible. But it is highly sensitive. Therefore it has a high error rate. But you don’t have to look at this question once you know that it is not suitable and not intended to detect infections. So if someone tests positive, then all this can mean anything is possible. Only one thing it does not mean, namely an infection. This can only be determined when a person also has symptoms. For example, if you wanted to detect a flu infection, it is not enough to do a test, the person must also have symptoms such as headache, runny nose, or something like that. Definite and 1000% sure, that is the result of the survey of 3 professors of Immunology and a doctor of molecular biology, Dr. Arvey from Austria. Then we heard Prof. Kemmerer from the University of Würzburg, Prof. Kappel from the Netherlands and Dolores Cahill, Professor from Dublin, Ireland. Also all the literature we have seen for this: It is absolutely certain that PCR tests, if they are positive, say nothing about an infection. Markus Langemann So incredible this question: There is no PCR test that can do this? Because you mentioned Drostens PCR test before and then you mentioned that there are up to 500 PCR tests. At the end you also said “PCR tests cannot do it”. Dr. Reiner Fuellmich No. There is not a single person who can do this. Not a single PCR test can detect infection. That is impossible. Markus Langemann How can infections be detected? You have just tried to explain this in some detail. In the end, we are given infection figures in tables and this means that there are 35 new infections in Munich, Berlin and elsewhere. These figures are based on results of PCR tests? Dr. Reiner Fuellmich Yes, they are based on it. An example: There were some so-called hotspots in Germany; once this slaughterhouse Tönnies in NRW, then in Berlin a big dormitory and in Göttingen, where my office is. There were two large apartment buildings, the so-called Iduna Center – that is, because it was once built by Iduna Insurance, with 407 apartments, and then the so-called Groner Landstraße 9a with about 700 residents. These two blocks of flats were completely sealed off because a PCR test suspected that a relatively large number – I believe there were 40 in the aforementioned Groner Landstrasse – were infected. But they were not infected, the test simply gave a positive result. I know this because I went to this housing estate with an Austrian camera team. I didn’t really plan to do  6 that, I wanted to eat there nearby, but the hotel with the restaurant was closed and my wife and I went to check it out. In this dormitory 700 people – I think 7 or 9 days – were held prisoner. This is a custodial measure when no one is allowed in or out. And this because 40 people tested positive. These positive tests have been publicly “infected”. But that’s absolute nonsense, because at some point the doctors who did a little more than just use this PCR test, found that these positive tests had not led to infection in any case. But in return, the entire residential building was fenced off with a gigantic fence, police officers in combat gear and orderlies from the public order office were also provided with a kind of combat gear, and then there were people standing around like from Outbreak, the film. People couldn’t get in or out without going through an airlock where it was checked whether they were tested or not. Afterwards we heard from some residents whom we interviewed that they tested positive and could still go in and out. They claimed that they tested negative and no one really cared about their identity. But on the outside, it was a great thing that the city of Göttingen said “We care”. Markus Langemann Do you have an explanation of how it can happen that we rely on one man, one statement in the core and one test and this not only in Germany but also internationally. Dr. Reiner Fuellmich In the meantime, there are a number of facts that we have established and which, taken together, allow an explanation. PCR means polymerase chain reaction. This is a kind of hobby of Mr. Drosten, who was the very first person to write a paper, which he has been working on with some other people, including one on the production of the PCR test, with which he also seems to be economically connected. He wrote in a paper earlier this year that he learned from the social media that something was going on in Wuhan, China. It could be that there has been an infection with something dangerous. There were 4 people who had a flu-like condition. There was the story with the ophthalmologist, who was the first to sound the alarm and then died. I want to say at this point that there are very serious courses of disease here. But there are also with every flu. Mr. Drosten saw “Oh my God, this could be something for me” and then “fumbled together” a test on the computer. Because he never saw the virus. The virus has never been in his Labour. He used an old SARS virus to get close to the supposedly new corona virus and then sent what he had pieced together to China and asked if it worked on the patients. That was probably the case, but it probably works for everyone else as well. That was then the moment when he became really active and involved the RKI. They have declared the pandemic through the WHO. Now one wonders how this can happen out of the blue and whether something has happened before. There is a video of a CDU faction meeting from May 2019, which ran under the title “Global Health” or similar and there one expects naturally also that the whole CDU Granten sit there, thus Merkel and Spahn. But there were also other people there, namely Mr Drosten, Mr Wieler from the RKI and Mr Tedros from the WHO. Perhaps Mr Drosten and Mr Wieler are CDU members. Mr. Tedros is guaranteed not to be a CDU member. In addition, the most important lobbyists were the two largest health foundations in the world, the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation and the Wellcome Trust. They talked and made speeches. I have not yet fully evaluated this because it is over 3 hours long. But some amazing things have been said, some of which make no sense at all. But at the end of the day, on the one hand, there is the story in May 2019, on the other hand, the very people who sat together in the CDU at that time are ultimately the ones who are mainly responsible for the government – and the CDU is the strongest government –  7 explaining this epidemic situation of national importance and declaring the lock down. Anyway, everyone has already been more careful than usual. Perhaps it would also be wise to keep your distance during any flu epidemic, wash your hands and observe a few hygiene rules. In the big picture, I don’t have to believe in any stuff that is not really proven. This seems to me to have been a very classic lobby number. On the one hand, the pharmaceutical industry and on the other hand the tech industry have joined forces and used the aforementioned people to lobby massively. After all, Bill Gates is not known for being the greatest health scientist of all time. There is a lot of money to be made here, firstly with the test, secondly with the vaccine, which could very well blow up in our faces if it is developed so quickly without the safety tests being done, but thirdly by tapping the genetic of each of us, because that is what happens when you use these PCR tests. Basically, you don’t have to resort to conspiracy theories here, but simply look at the principle “Follow The Money”, who got together when and what did they do. Markus Langemann May I interrupt you once again, because I think this is again very important and perhaps drowned in the flood of information you give us: When was the said CDU meeting? Dr. Reiner Fuellmich In May 2019 that was. Markus Langemann So far before we heard about this virus here in Germany or the German-speaking world? Dr. Reiner Fuellmich Yeah, that’s right. Markus Langemann You have to let that sink in. Dr. Reiner Fuellmich Yes, there have been rumours that even then PCR tests were sold worldwide in increased quantities. We are investigating this, but this has not yet been confirmed. There are a number of other facts that we need to check before we can make this public. I mean now with “we”, the people from the Corona Committee and the people who help us. We must not forget that we receive incredibly great advice from scientists, from practitioners in medicine and from all kinds of areas that are affected. We communicated partly during the demonstration on August 29th in Berlin partly directly with the police. People help us there too. So that we can put together in retrospect what actually happened there. Markus Langemann Mr. Fuellmich, just assume that what you say is true. That is what I assume. So that in May 2019 the people you listed sat together and among others also political decision makers here from the CDU. It can’t be in the interest of the CDU and its leaders that about one year later the country is facing ruin. Would you go so far as to say that this is a master plan? My modest little head may not believe this. Dr. Reiner Fuellmich Yes, so the industry that is affected here, the industry in general is not interested in anything but money. That is my experience from 26 years of litigation against large corporations and that is what this is all about. The pharmaceutical industry is perhaps only different in that they are even more ruthless and brutal and are only interested in money. We do not need to puzzle for long. There are also judges, who in other contexts,  8 for example in connection with VW, wrote in their judgement that it is normal that deception is made in this way, because this would be in accordance with the normal pursuit of profit and this is part of capitalism. The cars that can no longer drive into the cities, there is the market in Eastern Europe. This is not a joke, but is actually written in decisions. As far as the industry is concerned, we do not have to puzzle for long. We don’t need to think about the support from politicians and – I don’t want to generalize – the justice system employees who have been brought under control by politicians. But your question concerns whether the CDU, as the most important governing party, will paralyze everything one year later. Don’t they know what that means? Markus Langemann Has something gone wrong? Dr. Reiner Fuellmich Yes. I don’t think that something really got out of hand there, but that those politicians who made the decision, who simply live in a bubble and have no contact with reality and are therefore also without empathy towards those who have come under physical, psychological, physical and economic pressure as a result of the measures. That became clear to me when a Green Member of Parliament, named Claudio David Sieber, who actually comes from Austria in Tyrol but lives in Flensburg because whoever married a German, unpacked. He was spoken at a demo on 29.08 and described in a very moving way. He is still a student, he is father of 6 children and 32 years old, but he is still a student and he couldn’t go to the university because it was closed. He had so much time and literature to read and try to figure out what was going on. Something seemed strange to him. Short insertion in addition: To each lawyer this must seem immediately strange, if such a substantial interference in the fundamental rights of humans is made and this is based on only one opinion. On the basis of a single opinion, it will be possible to base such decisions. One must always follow the principle of “audiatur et altera pars”, i.e. “look at the other side as well”, also listen to the other opinion. Sieberer listened to them and understood these opinions. Mr. Sieber has listened to the opinion of experts and has said in his party that there is the perfect possibility that there is no reason to panic, because there are studies that say that the disease is in the range of the normal flu in terms of danger and mortality. At Stanford University, a highly respected and undoubtedly outstanding professor named John Ioannidis conducted a study that came to the same conclusion. Mr. Sieberer told this to his party people; they passed it up to the federal leadership. Zoom conferences were then held, in which the federal leadership was also involved. It was not said “Great David, that you give us such a chance because you did your job”, but he was vilified and bullied. Then he went public with it because he had no other choice. It turned out that the only basis for the corona measures were the opinion of Mr. Drosten and his scare tactics and his PCR tests. The Greens on the federal executive board tried to silence him and kick him out of his offices in the community in Flensburg. So it is about power in the end. I would assume that this is not only the case with the Greens, but also with all other parties. In the meantime we have reports from the FDP, the AFD and the left. That this is also the case in all other parties, at least in the party leadership, there is no interest at all in making contact with the population and meeting the needs of the population. Because otherwise at least one person would have said “I’ll listen to Ioannidis” or “I’ll listen to Prof Mölling or Dr. Wodarg. For example, he was the only one who stood in the way of Mr. Drosten and his helpers 12 years ago and thus prevented the worst. Although at that time also already a completely unnecessary and also dangerous vaccine had been bought and partly already inoculated by the Federal  9 Government. As a result, around 700 children across Europe suffer and still suffer from narcolepsy. This is incurable. Markus Langemann We see here quite clearly that it does not only affect politicians within the Greens. We see it in a former SPD politician who was Ministry of the Interior, and now dismissed from his post, was suspended because he was acting on his own responsibility in his area and sent a dossier of about 200 pages to his immediate superior, where he also compiled a number of facts. But at the moment you don’t hear anything more about him either. Dr. Reiner Fuellmich But you will still hear something from him. Markus Langemann Will you let us know what? Dr. Reiner Fuellmich Nah, I can’t say. But he is not dead and he did not flee. He talks to us, and in his paper he actually did what his job was: carried out a risk analysis and warned the federal government that there was a possibility that the most severe damage would occur. This in view of the fact that there is no proper basis for the measures. His paper also states that “unforeseeable claims for damages could be linked to this.” Exactly as it will come now. Markus Langemann Who will be the defendant? How much money are you trying to get the plaintiffs under one roof? Dr. Reiner Fuellmich Those who are primarily responsible are those in politics who have decided on these measures. They did not act in their own expertise, but because they had an advisor. I always thought they had a lot of advisors, but they only had one – as we know thanks to Mr. Sieber’s statement. This one was probably also the one on which the state government relied for its measures: Mr. Drosten. Mr. Wieler from the RKI and the WHO will also be present. I cannot sue the WHO in Germany without further ado. Because there is so much money at stake here and because it is all about clarity, we have considered with our colleagues, a large group of lawyers here, USA and Canada, to choose the ones who are most easily recognizable and who have also made the biggest fuss. These are the ones who claimed that PCR could detect infections and then pushed this PCR test to sell it worldwide. We cannot estimate how high the damage will be in the end. But a few hundred billion will not be enough. Here in Germany, I only advise the troops that take care of German clients. I’m doing this because I have the appropriate connections through my California license. But in the other countries of Europe, but of course also in other countries, for example Namibia, the damage occurred in the same way. So Namibia, to mention this only as an example, everything was quiet until the aid shipment, namely the PCR tests, arrived from Germany “thankfully”. From that moment on, everything collapsed and exactly the same measures were implemented as here in Germany. Again with the help of the RKI and the WHO. Suddenly, there were many supposedly infected and everyone who died of anything died of Covid-19 right away. There are reports, for example from the USA, that the doctor who issues the death certificate can charge higher fees if he writes Covid-19 on it. The hospitals even more so. Also for one ventilation you get 39,000 USD instead of 19,000 USD. We can’t estimate the amount at all, but if we manage to structure our colleagues in other countries worldwide in such a way that they, too, can organize the clients, i.e. the injured parties, and then bring them into a lawsuit in the USA or Canada, then we won’t be talking about billions anymore.  10 Markus Langemann My common sense, which does not always have to go hand in hand with a legal mind, would now tell me: “Mr. Drosten can be not to sue at all because he did not make the political decisions. He has provided a test that is faulty. The political responsibility and the common sense and intellect of politicians should have matured to the point where at least quality control is demanded”. This means that the lawsuit could actually only be directed against those who act politically? Dr. Reiner Fuellmich Nah, the impacts will come very close to the political leaders. That is the real political goal. In the end, the taxpayer will have to pay the damages that are owed anyway. But you have to keep one thing in mind: If you let the middle class go K.O., we will have such massive tax losses and social transfers, especially through unemployment benefits, that this will far exceed the damage. No single country in the world can afford this. We are suing the aforementioned, because they have deliberately false facts claiming to have deceived the public and thus also the politicians. These are primarily responsible. Also here we will have some complaints about the official liability according to § 839 BGB in connection with Art 34 of the German Constitution. If the state is accused of culpably erroneous behavior, then the people who are primarily in question must be called upon. This is exactly what we are doing now. Whether in Germany or elsewhere is irrelevant. Mister Drosten knows very well from virologists that he was wrong when he claimed for a long time that there is talk of infected people and that his PCR tests can detect infections, although this is not the case. He has also rowed back a little bit in the meantime, probably because he can already see that it is getting tighter. A part of the public has noticed that there is constant talk of infections here, but nobody has been ill for months and nobody is dying. That is with Drosten now the deliberately immoral damage. Especially the immorality becomes greater and greater, for he now also talks up a second wave. Markus Langemann Personally, I have the impression that lawyers in Germany largely duck away when it comes to dealing with the question of the legality of the measures taken. I find it astonishing, when we have about 170,000 licensed lawyers in Germany, certainly with different specializations, that a few mostly small law firms question with enormous effort. I find large law firms complete in this context. First: Am I wrong? Second: If not, what is the reason for the lawyers to duck away? Dr. Reiner Fuellmich That was also my first question. I am in the phase between the beginning of February and the end of May in the USA in California, where my wife and I live on a ranch to recharge the batteries from time to time. When we saw and heard all this going on here in Germany, we couldn’t believe it and then said to my wife “Let’s stay here until the number is over and then we’ll come back”. I can, if I have very important court dates, then I can fly back for a short time and then come back again. This was no longer possible because at the same time panic grew in the USA and everyone believed what Mr. Drosten said. Not as bad as here with all the insane aggressiveness of wearing masks, selfproclaimed executions and mask duties and so on, but you couldn’t avoid it. I first asked Wolfram Wordag, with whom I have been friends since the transparency international days, when the whole thing seemed strange to me. He then referred me to Mölling and so on. At about the same time as David Sieber, without knowing each other, I made this effort because something seemed strange to me and I thought that someone seemed to be lying to us. Then I have Mr. Wordag whether there are still a few lawyers in Germany who take care  11 of it. I also made a video “When the lawyers come out of hiding” and he then gave me the name “Viviane Fischer”, who here in Berlin started a petition calling for a baseline study. That was the demand for clarity, for clarification of what is really going on here. She received 85,000 signatures and I visited her at some point with Prof. Homburg, who was a very deserving mathematician and a financier for us. We have decided that we will do what the federal government or the Bundestag should have done: We set a committee of inquiry in motion, but we do not call it a pompous committee of inquiry, we call it a corona committee. This in order not to appear presumptuous in any way. At first with the statement “We want to know what’s going on”, in the meantime we have reached the point where each of us says that something can be wrong. Viviane Fische was the most reticent and that the matter is clear and sufficient to take legal action. I know of 50 or 60 lawyers who, among other things, work for AFA, “Lawyers for Enlightenment”, mainly from individual law firms, and who make a gigantic effort. They usually lose money and do not earn any. This to help people because of the measures to masks, spacing, fines and so on. In the committee today we also discussed the basis for the measures, i.e. the regulations, to be submitted to the Constitutional Court. As the former president, Papier, has already said, a constitutional basis is not discernible. Then you don’t even have to ask if it is reasonable and check if I am told that I have to show a certificate or if a measure may only be carried out by a policeman and so on. None of this is relevant if it turns out that the constitutional basis is missing. Because then everything is illegal. It is not surprising that the large law firms are not playing along with this. I work together with a number of colleagues who come from large law firms and have a completely different opinion than the people who run the large firms. The large law firms are naturally afraid that if they engage in this direction, they will lose mainstream clients. The people who then work with us on these lawsuits and compensation efforts will not go to the public under any circumstances, because they are just like the media employees from the so-called leading media have always blown in the same direction. In the end, they are always afraid for their jobs. Many people who talk to us behind the scenes describe the situation to us in the same way. Markus Langemann What is the situation with the judges in Germany? Are you aware of the fact that in Germany, money is also paid to judges for courtesy verdicts? Dr. Reiner Fuellmich So I think that most judges in Germany try to do their job well. However, in these cases with structural imbalance, there is the big problem that the judges tend to be inclined towards the large corporations. Here without any sense of wrongdoing, and no matter how fraudulent they are. The individuals who do not do so confirm this rule. But in principle we must have the hope that the justice system will work. Prof. Schwab, who grew up in Regensburg and can speak Bavarian, said in an interview yesterday or the day before, that the test will be exemplary. The PCR test for the judiciary is made with these cases. This will reveal whether there is still living matter on the way here or whether it is already dead, dead debris. This is what you often find in PCR tests. It has to be checked in the criminal law whether these measures like fines because of the distance regulation, even this action against such persons and even worse is legally okay or not maybe a coercion is involved or even a bodily injury when people are thrown off the train because they don’t wear a mask wear, although they have a mask certificate. This must be legally prepared. We will see whether the German judiciary is capable or whether what we see here now is ultimately only the crowning glory of what has already been seen before at Deutsche Bank, VW and Wire Card, and also at Kühne und Nagel. There, the judiciary has closed both eyes to  12 avoid seeing certain true facts. However, I still have the confidence from the principle. A lot depends on how the public as a whole behaves, how the media landscape as a whole behaves. I have no doubt whatsoever that the Enlightenment will take place in the AngloAmerican countries one way or another, and that then, if necessary, even if the German judiciary legitimizes what we believe to be completely lawless actions, whether the German judiciary can still make a mess of it, I do not believe so. First of all, I take a positive approach and do not assume that the German judiciary is “brought into line”. Markus Langemann If listeners have given us their attention for just under an hour now, then we should at least now give them something solid to take with them, namely: how could they recognize whether they themselves are aggrieved and if they do, how can they participate in the class action on what terms? What do they have to do in concrete terms? Dr. Reiner Fuellmich We deliberately turned first to the entrepreneurs, including the selfemployed, because the calculation of the damage is so beautifully simple. You look at what you made in 2019 between March and June in terms of sales minus costs, i.e. profit. Then you look at 2020 in the same period, the difference is the damage. That doesn’t cover all the damage, of course, because it will continue as long as the mask zombie phase lasts, people will say that they don’t feel like going to the restaurant or the pub or the hotel or that they don’t like flying. This means the damage will increase. For such purposes there is the possibility in German, as well as in American and Canadian civil law to file a declaratory motion. One writes then into the complaint that the defendant or the accused must be condemned first to pay for example 50,000 euro and secondly it is to be stated that also all large damage, which is not yet quantifiable, is to be refunded. Then we have everything covered. The entrepreneurs, who are in this situation and can calculate and quantify a damage plus a declaratory motion, can assert their damage over any German lawyer anyway. You can claim these damages through any German lawyer under German law. Prof. Schwab and I and the other colleagues agree on this. But it also goes over this corona damage compensation class action. There is a website called corona-schadensersatzklage.de and there were forms that are easy to understand. But you can also communicate with the lawyers there, who handle the whole thing. You can join the corona damage compensation class action. The team of lawyers will then evaluate everything and make it “bite-sized”, that as soon as the class action is allowed, then everyone worldwide who is affected by this damaging event, i.e. by the lock down, which is only based on the PCR test, can bring in their claims for damages. Markus Langemann What time horizon are we talking about here? Dr. Reiner Fuellmich As soon as the court says that this Class Action “goes”, a window opens and then you probably have half a year to file your claims. However, this must be done by the lawyers who have dealt with these cases, but without the help of a lawyer it will be difficult. Because the typical thing about these Class Actions is, if the court concludes that it is best to act as a Class Action, then it will be published in the media worldwide through the media. You can read about it in the big daily newspapers and everyone who knows about it has to see that you can bring your demands into this class action. But this is not a constraint, it is only a possibility. Those who believe that they are better served by this than by making a single complaint can join in. If he joins, then he becomes a member of that Class, that class of claim, then he wins if the one, representative claimant wins. So a single  13 complainer, he is typically affected and therefore represents the whole group, the whole “class”. If he wins after the beautiful Anglo-American law of evidence has been applied, then all others have won as well. In contrast, our system of evidence is Stone Age. Then all the others have won as well and then I have a title, namely a judgement in my hand. This judgment is also enforceable in Germany. Not regarding punitive damages, but that’s not what this is about. It is only a matter of compensation for the damage actually incurred. This is also enforceable here in Germany. I believe we have a reciprocity agreement with all or almost all of the American states. This means that we acknowledge each other’s judgments. However, punitive damages are not enforceable, because the so-called “ordre public” argues against it, but I will withhold more details from you now. Markus Langemann Mr. Fuellmich, you said so nicely ” when the window opens”. Do you have an idea when the window might open? Do you have experience in this area? Dr. Reiner Fuellmich This depends mainly on how quickly we are able to talk to law firms and colleagues. There are also some, where PCR class actions are running against manufacturers – not German, but American and Canadian manufacturers. There it is easier, because the manufacturers are the problem. Therefore the case is actually quite simple. But first you have to understand: what is a PCR test, what can it do and why is this PCR test here in the center of the action? Or to put it very briefly: If there was no PCR test, there would not be a pandemic. MarkusLangemann I was not able to elicit a concretely formulated time horizon from you. Dr. Reiner Fuellmich Yes, sorry! I talk to them and I just don’t want to be thrown over my knee and end up going out with a law firm that will be bought away from me. This is a very big problem. There’s a lot of money at stake here and if I were to discuss in public which law firm is better, I would have to reckon with someone saying “Hey guys, you don’t have to make such a big effort. Here are already times 200 or 500 million and then the problem is also finished. I don’t want that. Therefore the whole thing must be handled carefully and precisely. We have to get to know people personally, as far as I cannot trust people I know. The case must be prepared really well. It may be that a law firm is great with class action, but has no idea about PCR testing yet. We still have to do a bit of educational work. But roughly speaking: in 3-4 weeks there should be clear conditions and we should be able to say “Now it starts”. Markus Langemann And this is what people who want to join this lawsuit experience how? Dr. Reiner Fuellmich If the court admits this action as a class action, the court will ensure that it is published worldwide. In this case it is not only one country that is affected, but the whole world. I even estimate that the leading media will then have no choice but to report on it. Markus Langemann Thank you very much so far! Finally, I have a few questions: The most important question, as I personally find, is about your personal motivation. Are you looking for recognition? Attention? Do you need money or are you a Don Quixote?  14 Dr. Reiner Fuellmich If it had been up to me, I would have sat out the number in California. All around me there is a huge valley. In any case, money is not the issue here. Not me, anyway. I have not earned a cent with it yet. Does not have to be. I have big proceedings going on, which I think I can live on quite well without having to earn extra money here. If I really put my heart and soul into this, then I will earn money with it, but I think you can then limit yourself to a success fee. I will only earn this when success is really there. So why am I doing this? Because my wife said “We can’t stay here. You can’t just watch. You’re good at this.” Apart from that, in those cases where I have been daily, I have always invested with large corporations. There I have no fear of contact. I myself once worked for the German bank in Tokyo 27 years or so ago. By the way, that was one of the reasons why I studied law. Just like my father decided to become a policeman. As pathetic as it may sound, he wanted to provide justice. And that’s what I’m all about. That was my motivation. I didn’t go to a big law firm where I had to sell my soul and would have had a lot of money for it. So that’s definitely not what I’m talking about. I couldn’t stand it, just because someone has a lot of money and at the same time obviously has a completely broken personality, thinks he can rule the world. I don’t mean anybody in particular now, but after the hearings we had in our committee, Professor Ruppert, among others, was heard. Back then I wondered how someone can have so little empathy and people die alone and isolated, their relatives are not allowed to come. Can someone who is dying still be infected? Prof. Ruppert explained to us that these people usually don’t feel any empathy at all, although they may have acquired some social skills and usually come from very broken family backgrounds, which somehow masked it. In any case, I don’t want what happens now to determine my daily routine and life for the rest of my life. My wife doesn’t want that either and a lot of people don’t want that either. I really don’t give a shit about money. But I do not want this. Markus Langemann Many thanks. Then the most important question remains for me at the end: In your view, what is the Corona complex that we all suffer from here now, and what is it doing in our society? Obviously by the values and norms? Would you say that we can also take something good with us? Dr. Reiner Fuellmich Yes, every thing has two sides. You also have a positive side here. Because everything that we could and should have seen and have seen long ago, but have repressed, has really come to light through Corona. There was such a thin turf above and below – I will put it badly – below the shit boils. There are so many individual problem points that a solution to this recognized problem, to these many problems, can only be approached holistically. We also heard this at the hearing of our experts. There it is about the abolition of factory farming. One of the experts is a professor of business law, Prof Kreis, who never operated with numbers, but simply said, how can we allow these poor animals to be tortured like this. Another topic is social justice: How is it possible that we buy T-shirts for 2 € here, which are put together by small children somewhere in Bangladesh and get nothing or only a few cents for it. The limitation of the power of the corporations is certainly related to this. But we must also think about how we can deal with the climate catastrophe. We must fight global warming. We will probably have to set completely new sociopolitical accents. A restructuring will be necessary. In my opinion, this is the only real positive outcome of the Corona Scandal: That the view of all this is revealed and so many really, really good people come together here. Not the front line of politics. Not the front line of  15 the economy. Instead, it is usually the second, third and fourth rows that can suddenly show what they can do. And we saw in committee that this is possible, and we will continue to do so. Markus Langemann If there were now a piece of paper, a white A4 sheet of paper, on which the sentence “Let us think for ourselves and let us remain democrats” would be written. Would you sign this? Dr. Reiner Fuellmich Yes immediately. Markus Langemann Many thanks for the interview. Dr. Reiner Fuellmich Thank you for the opportunity. Thank you very much. Transcribed on 23.9.2020 Translated by Dean Braus on 25.9.2020

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